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| [quote]rawdawg (3/15/2010)
BigBull,
The impulsive have it now crowd are the main whiners and will be just as upset with the next transition whether at ISU or UI. Glad we don't have too many like that around here.
I get it BB. Is this right? To be a true Drake basketball fan, you must have patience, endurances, and a well stocked liquor cabinet.... I only repeat what I've heard, read, and seen. I don't drink so I will have to learn through the things I suffer.... Thank God for "Dream Seasons", huh? The third year is our year, right? Is the internship over? Calipari only
needed one year...but that's a whole other story...He has great players....history..and tradition on his side.[/quote]
You have said this many times over, but I just don't buy that there was a whole lot to continue after 07-08. I get that we had two great players and AT, but we had no bench, a turnover-prone sophomore point guard, and Keno himself was saying to all who would listen within the athletic department that 08-09 was not going to be a 20-win season. Remember, his recruiting class was Sean Jones, Jared Vlastuin, Craig Stanley, and maybe a 6'4" guy out of Texas, not the stuff dreams are made of. The Davises had a 4-5 year plan that was designed around the heir-apparent. It worked for them, but left Drake with having to create another legacy. I believe that is occuring and that this legacy has the potential to be more long-lasting than the Davis era.
As for the alcohol, don't worry, McB consumes enough for both of you.
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| rawdawg (3/15/2010)
The third year is our year, right? Is the internship over? Calipari only needed one year...but that's a whole other story...He has great players....history..and tradition on his side.
And, if you believe the haters, he cheats like a mofo.
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| What the hades did Keno know about 08-09. Like he predicted 07-08? Always underpromise,
then overdeliver. I get the rebuild then. I just believe that all coaches with a 3-year+
contract, know that they have a couple of years to "phiss away" with a "half arsh showing" and they will be good as long as they show progress in the third year. My concern is that I have not seen enough simple basketball knowledge displayed in the last two years to warrant or"phiss away" another two-three years. For the record, players underperform for coaches they don't believe in. Winning starts "in-between the ears"
and filters downward.
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| [quote]Gordon Gottschalk (3/15/2010)
[quote]rawdawg (3/15/2010)
BigBull,
The impulsive have it now crowd are the main whiners and will be just as upset with the next transition whether at ISU or UI. Glad we don't have too many like that around here.
I get it BB. Is this right? To be a true Drake basketball fan, you must have patience, endurances, and a well stocked liquor cabinet.... I only repeat what I've heard, read, and seen. I don't drink so I will have to learn through the things I suffer.... Thank God for "Dream Seasons", huh? The third year is our year, right? Is the internship over? Calipari only
needed one year...but that's a whole other story...He has great players....history..and tradition on his side.[/quote]
You have said this many times over, but I just don't buy that there was a whole lot to continue after 07-08. I get that we had two great players and AT, but we had no bench, a turnover-prone sophomore point guard, and Keno himself was saying to all who would listen within the athletic department that 08-09 was not going to be a 20-win season. Remember, his recruiting class was Sean Jones, Jared Vlastuin, Craig Stanley, and maybe a 6'4" guy out of Texas, not the stuff dreams are made of. The Davises had a 4-5 year plan that was designed around the heir-apparent. It worked for them, but left Drake with having to create another legacy. I believe that is occuring and that this legacy has the potential to be more long-lasting than the Davis era.
As for the alcohol, don't worry, McB consumes enough for both of you.[/quote]
McB is single handedledy funding the state budget!!
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| DUBulldog,
And, if you believe the haters, he cheats like a mofo
Oh yeah, we know he cheats and is always one step (or school) ahead of the NCAA
sanctions and penalties. I'm not saying cheat....I'm saying he gets players to buy into
his winning system (basketball-wise). Until Drakes makes a total commitment to
basketball excellence, we will alway have what we have....Drake Basketball...exempting
"Dream Seasons "...... and better known for academic excellence and the famous
Drake Relays...
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| [quote]rawdawg (3/15/2010)
What the hades did Keno know about 08-09. Like he predicted 07-08? Always underpromise,
then overdeliver. I get the rebuild then. I just believe that all coaches with a 3-year+
contract, know that they have a couple of years to "phiss away" with a "half arsh showing" and they will be good as long as they show progress in the third year. My concern is that I have not seen enough simple basketball knowledge displayed in the last two years to warrant or"phiss away" another two-three years. For the record, players underperform for coaches they don't believe in. Winning starts "in-between the ears"
and filters downward.[/quote]
So your saying MP just threw away two years because he had float?
Would a theoretical Coach Raw have brought in Jukes in year two to showcase his star?
Remember coach Raw didn't have anything coming in year 1 except for a Juke who needed some seasoning and had to learn a new system regardless.
Was it all motivation? No lack of execution?
WWCRDD? (for those in rio linda, What Would Coach Raw Dog Do?)
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| BigBull,
[quote]So your saying MP just threw away two years because he had float?
Would a theoretical Coach Raw have brought in Jukes in year two to showcase his star?
Remember coach Raw didn't have anything coming in year 1 except for a Juke who needed some seasoning and had to learn a new system regardless. Was it all motivation? No lack of execution? WWCRDD? (for those in rio linda, What Would Coach Raw Dog Do?)[/quote]
Not necessarily... just saying..there was no self-imposed pressure to follow up with the 28-5
season. It was a legitimate feeling out process, whether there was a 28-5 or not. I do think
there was a sense of arrogance not to take DU or the Valley more seriously..referencing MP3
(for those of you in rio linda westside)....Mark Phelps - 3rd year coach). No theoretical Coach
Raw and no Jukes. DU has no star(s). I've seen nearly all the games in the last two years and I still have not figured out this "new system"; on "O" or on "D". I do know it worked less than half the times it was employed this season but next year it should work all the time...right.. Motivation and execution is a part of the success equation. You need them both....
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| [quote]rawdawg (3/15/2010)
BigBull,
[quote]So your saying MP just threw away two years because he had float?
Would a theoretical Coach Raw have brought in Jukes in year two to showcase his star?
Remember coach Raw didn't have anything coming in year 1 except for a Juke who needed some seasoning and had to learn a new system regardless. Was it all motivation? No lack of execution? WWCRDD? (for those in rio linda, What Would Coach Raw Dog Do?)[/quote]
Not necessarily... just saying..there was no self-imposed pressure to follow up with the 28-5
season. It was a legitimate feeling out process, whether there was a 28-5 or not. I do think
there was a sense of arrogance not to take DU or the Valley more seriously..referencing MP3
(for those of you in rio linda westside)....Mark Phelps - 3rd year coach). No theoretical Coach
Raw and no Jukes. DU has no star(s). I've seen nearly all the games in the last two years and I still have not figured out this "new system"; on "O" or on "D". I do know it worked less than half the times it was employed this season but next year it should work all the time...right.. Motivation and execution is a part of the success equation. You need them both....[/quote]
Good god Raw, man you are one negative person. Wow. Lay off Phelps, its just annoying. |
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| rawdawg (3/15/2010)
What the hades did Keno know about 08-09.
UHHH... like, dude, he was the coach.
Winning starts "in-between the ears" and filters downward.
I agree 100%. Hopefully, with the 2010-11 team being all of coach P's recruits there won't be any whispering in players ears about how bad Coach P is compared to Keno.
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| On Calipari:
"I just try not to listen to him and go out and play basketball and try and help my team win," Wall said Saturday. |
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| Gordon Gottschalk (3/16/2010)
[quote]rawdawg (3/15/2010)
What the hades did Keno know about 08-09.
UHHH... like, dude, he was the coach.
Winning starts "in-between the ears" and filters downward.
I agree 100%. Hopefully, with the 2010-11 team being all of coach P's recruits there won't be any whispering in players ears about how bad Coach P is compared to Keno.[/quote]
Oh Gordon, that would be like saying we had some disgruntled parents the last two years who were wispering in their own players ears.................. That just couldn't happen........................ Could it?....................WWCRDD?
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| For the sake of the future Dogs, I'll raise up off your boy. Please don't mimimize the whispers to the parents of the players for the last two years. Trust me, there will continue to be whispers (from parents, fans, press, etc) if the same activities continue without applicable basketball knowledge and progress. For the record, I'm not one that
praised Keno as "the anointed one". I saw him as the "Great Facilitator" who was smart enough to not "fix something that wasn't broken.". This is futile...... "Time will tell and be the judge". We're Family...
GO DOGS !!!
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| | Good post, Raw. Players will always talk about their coaches just like employees talking about their supervisors. It is inevitable. Some one once said there is good signs in that there have been no mass defections such as Iowa or ISU, so not all is bad in the locker room. Hey, you spend that much time listening to a person bark at you you are bound to say something to your parents, friends, relatives, etc. |
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| rawdawg (3/16/2010)
For the sake of the future Dogs, I'll raise up off your boy.
"Your boy???" Really?!?! Good god, the disdain and disrespect is astounding. Perhaps it's time for some parents, friends, and relatives to learn a lesson about class and respect from the very classy and respectful player/s they support.
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| [quote]rawdawg (3/16/2010)
For the sake of the future Dogs, I'll raise up off your boy. Please don't mimimize the whispers to the parents of the players for the last two years. Trust me, there will continue to be whispers (from parents, fans, press, etc) if the same activities continue without applicable basketball knowledge and progress. For the record, I'm not one that
praised Keno as "the anointed one". I saw him as the "Great Facilitator" who was smart enough to not "fix something that wasn't broken.". This is futile...... "Time will tell and be the judge". We're Family...
GO DOGS !!![/quote]
So MP3 should have just walked in and asked JP, JY, and bucky what they wanted to do run and left it at that? Kind of sounds like that is where your goin with your comments RawBone! The "Soccer Moms" and "Pop Warner Dads" always know what's best for little Johnny, and company, especially when it comes to play calling and playing time. Every parent is a frustrated coach. Its when they become toxic know it alls and question every move a coach makes that the kids lose perspective. No system is perfect, every lineup needs tweeking and coaches are fallible human beings. But I have seen a lot of toxicity from parents and know it can destroy a team.
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| BB,
So MP3 should have just walked in and asked JP, JY, and bucky what they wanted to do run and left it at that? Kind of sounds like that is where your goin with your comments RawBone! The "Soccer Moms" and "Pop Warner Dads" always know what's best for little Johnny, and company, especially when it comes to play calling and playing time. Every parent is a frustrated coach. Its when they become toxic know it alls and question every move a coach makes that the kids lose perspective. No system is perfect, every lineup needs tweeking and coaches are fallible human beings. But I have seen a lot of toxicity from parents and know it can destroy a team.
You and I know that was not going to happen. Maybe a little consultation with the sole
coach from the "Dream Season" and what he thought about the base of who was left.
Maybe, what was working and what was not working until he got his own players.
It was unfortunate that the "Great Facilitator" bolted for the bucks and left two classes
of recruits in the lurk to deal with whomever the administration brought in. Remember,
the parents were a part of the "sell job" that got their "little Johnnies" to attend the university.
Contrary to your belief, every parent is not a frustrated coach. Parents, for the most part are supportive and see the coaches and school as conduits and extensions of their authority. No system is perfect. It's sad that you have seen a lot of toxicity from parents. Have you ever polled them as to the why? When recruiter enter homes and gyms of these little Johnnies, they may have to be a little disingenuous at times to secure a recruit.....naw..that would never happen...would it. For the record, I have seen a few pigheaded arrogant coaches destroy whole programs because they wouldn't listen to anybody....even those writing the checks.
BigBull, thank you....the last two years could have been a lot worse... we only ranoff (lost)
one of the few players who could have left if they chose to...I think they (parents) were looking out for their little Johnny..
Drake's gonna be fine..We got good folk here...Make peace not war.....GO BULLDOGS !!
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| Again, out of town with nothing better to do so here I go.
After the dream season, the Dogs lacked two things:
1. An experienced coach (they didn't have one during the dream season either)
2. Senior leadership. I loved the seniors we had in 08-09, but i MY opinion we didn't have a leader. You could have brought dad back in 08-09 and I don't think they would have done much better.
Again, what we had in 09-10 was senior leadership, but too much inexperience.
For those who have been around the program for a long time (10+ years), can you remember a more talented freshman class than they one we had this year? We have had more talented freshman (Luke McD and JY), but I can't remember a freshman class like that. (Keep in mind that Luke left after not getting along with new Dr. coach).
We appear to have another very good freshman class coming in for next year.
Time will tell if MP can coach, but I'll predict he has brought in more talent in two years that Drake has seen since the years of the final four.
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| Put,
I'll agree with you on this...these seem to be 2 very talented back-to-back classes coming in. Even John Wooden couldn't win in the NCAAs with a bunch of 6th graders, so skill has a lot to do with it. Hopefully the style of play will be conducive to what these student-athletes can do.
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| [quote]Darth Vader (3/16/2010)
Put,
I'll agree with you on this...these seem to be 2 very talented back-to-back classes coming in. Even John Wooden couldn't win in the NCAAs with a bunch of 6th graders, so skill has a lot to do with it. Hopefully the style of play will be conducive to what these student-athletes can do.[/quote]
Very true, but a great coach can make a less-talented team better and a bad coach can make a talented team look bad. But for your basic, garden-variety decent coach (which is probably 60-70% of the D1 coaches out there) success stems from talent. I think Coach P fits in the garden-variety category (as does Keno) and feel good that as the young talent gains experience the wins will follow.
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| [quote]Gordon Gottschalk (3/17/2010)
[quote]Darth Vader (3/16/2010)
Put,
I'll agree with you on this...these seem to be 2 very talented back-to-back classes coming in. Even John Wooden couldn't win in the NCAAs with a bunch of 6th graders, so skill has a lot to do with it. Hopefully the style of play will be conducive to what these student-athletes can do.[/quote]
Very true, but a great coach can make a less-talented team better and a bad coach can make a talented team look bad. But for your basic, garden-variety decent coach (which is probably 60-70% of the D1 coaches out there) success stems from talent. I think Coach P fits in the garden-variety category (as does Keno) and feel good that as the young talent gains experience the wins will follow.[/quote]
Excellent post Gordon!
There is iron in big bulls words for all the world to see!
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